Head First: Relationship or Righteousness?

Sunday, October 28, 2007

Relationship or Righteousness?

Instead of righteousness, let's just say right-ness. Which takes precedent?

15 comments:

Kc said...

I can't see a distinction. Am I missing something?

dorsey said...

Does the requirement to be correct supercede the requirement to be together?

To me, the answer is an obvious no. But I don't think everyone sees it that way.

RF2R2 said...

I think you are making what is almost always a complicated situation very clear. If I walked up to a stranger on the street and told them they needed Jesus to be born again, it would simplify the whole Gospel thing.

Unfortunately, there is often much more that needs to take place to get to that very simple idea. The same is true with your question - it is obvious which is right when you put it so bluntly. The problem is that this simple question is veiled under a myriad of other distraction of the caliber of, say, the color of the sanctuary carpet.

BTW, my church split today because some self-righteous spawns of Satan berated our pastor to the point of resignation. I've met few men as dedicated to their calling and to the people of god as my pastor and seeing how he has been treated makes me want to beat a kitten. This is the first split I've ever been involved in, and it makes me want to vomit (literally). I've never been privy to why you left your church, dorse, but I'm starting to understand why someone might want to leave.

Zeke said...

Well, my prophet is the Prophet Timothy, and he says...


[/obscure Dean Whitter commercial reference]

Kc said...

Dorse I intended to allude to the perception that right-ness is relationship with God and others and that being in relationship with God and others is right-ness. The tension in relationship that is born out of not right-ness on the part of one is only relieved in the forgiveness given by the other. This is the only way to maintain relationship/right-ness.

dorsey said...

Brandon, that makes my heart hurt. No one should have to witness such a rotten thing as that. I'm sorry.

Zeke, we already know what that guy says. Judgement, wrath, and more judgement. heh.

Kc, I agree, of course. But what about when forgiveness from the other isn't on the table? There's a part of me that's still nagged by the notion that, by dying to myself, by setting my rights aside, I should be able to take a whipping that isn't mine to take in order to preserve relationship. But then, I guess a relationship that would accept that isn't much of a relationship. I dunno.

jeff said...

But seek (aim at and strive after) first of all His kingdom and His righteousness (His way of doing and being right), and then all these things taken together will be given you besides. Matthew 6:33- Amplified Bible


As a Christian life, we're responsible for ourselves, not others. Our command is to forgive, not to make sure we're forgiven by others.

God's way of "right-ness" is attached to His righteousness. It's loving enemies, and forgiving unconditionally... pretty much that whole "denying my rights to myself" kind-of thing.

When all is said & done, we're responsible for how we love others, not how they love us.

(imho)

Caro said...

Jeff et al:
If I am not "right" w/God, upon what do I base my relationship to anyone? Most likely, it will be "What's in it for me?"
Thus, my 1st priority is to be "right"w/God and this IS what I seek first; then (thereafter) all things will increase my life, just as youse guys do!

altho' we differ from time to time, we seem to have a solid relationship, based upon Christ. We define Him somewhat differently, but it seems that each brings a unique perspective, which enriches us all.

Steve said...

This post is over my head, possibly because I am neither. Let me think it through....

But that church split thing... GOD that SUCKS.

I went through one around 1986 and it altered my perspective on everything... and it's one of the foundational moments of the stupidchurchpeople website (shameless promotion - Saddleback roots die hard)....

Anyway... I said about the split after it was over... 10% wanted it one way, 10% wanted the other and 80% just didn't give a damn - they just wanted to go to church, worship God and live life. Why did the 80% let the 20% push them around? Well... I guess that's my same question today for every church in America. The 80/20 principle is still alive and well. Seriously...in reality... my life's purpose (haha - I couldn't resist) is to get the 80% to kick the 20%'s ass!

Ok... back to the post. Based on what I just wrote... I say both. The 80% were RIGHT and wanted to be together... so they should of kicked the 20% out. No split...just a bit of pruning!

dorsey said...

Steve, yours sounds like the less spiritualized version of a proposal posited by a friend of my brother. He observed that every living body periodically expels waste matter. Therefore, if the church is really a body, then it shouldn't be unexpected for that body to um...dump the excess from time to time. In fact, keeping all that crammed in there can lead to serious health issues.

The more I think about it, the more apt this analogy becomes.

jeff said...

"anal"-ogy

hehehe...

Zeke said...

The people that cause division in churches (or any other social group, for that matter) are usually the most fearful, controlling, easily offended little people you're bound to meet. And I do mean little. I don't miss that about church. Not one bit.

Molly's Boss said...

Relationship or Righteousness. Not sure what you are asking here.
Are you asking regarding a relationship with the Lord or relationship with my brother? If you are inferring if a relationship with the Lord is more important than righteousness, I guess the answer would be my righteousness is like filthy rags to Him and if I depended on my righteousness to have a relationship with Him then that would be impossible. However, a relationship with Him means that I am seeking to “conform to His image” which is total righteousness. Therefore, righteousness does play a part in that I should be pursuing it because He requests it of me. Now if you are talking about a relationship with my brother then I guess he is in the same boat I’m in. His righteousness is like filthy rags as well. Can I demand he be absolute righteousness when I know that I am not? I guess the question would be is he, my brother or sister, pursuing righteousness? Even if he is not then I guess that would make him either one, outside the remnant, or two a backslider, or three a stalled brother in his faith due to whatever reason. Should I break relations with him? Why? Most likely this brother would break relations with me because most of what I talk about in our family and friends conversations is either politics or Christian beliefs. I’m not sure that a brother of this mindset would like being around me. If you were asking, would I break fellowship with a brother because he lacked righteousness and refuse to take communion with him? Again I would say no. However if you are asking would I like a brother who is not pursuing righteousness in the Lord as my Pastor, Elder, Deacon, or Bishop… I would have to say no. I would not mind having him as a fellow brother in the Lord but I would not want him as a counselor, teacher, or authority.

ninjanun said...

Sometimes the wrong people get "expelled" from the body, though, because the body insists on eating nothing but junk food. So the (few) people who DO act as say, the pancreas, liver, spleen, kidneys (filtering out the bad and making sure the good stuff sticks around) eventually get overloaded with all the crap the rest of the body insists on shoving down its throat.

And alas, there generally only two ways to exit the body: noisily, raising a big stink about Exactly Why You Are Leaving, or as quietly as possible, risking the loss of relationship as everyone else forms their OWN ideas about why you left (usually wrong, and not in your favor).

It's no surprise that once the body decides it doesn't need the liver or the kidneys, it slowly (in our case, rapidly) poisons itself to death.

RF2R2 said...

All these comparisons to defecation are immensely entertaining. I love you guys :)